Thanks James, this is easily the most graspable explanation of rootstocks I've read - and I've read lots about rootstocks!
Love the idea of using seedlings and I have actually been spreading pomace about the place since I’ve been making cider (5 years) and have maybe 5 seedlings to show for it! Initially I was thinking about getting novel & unique varieties inspired by Andy Brennan’s book but its good to have the backup of being able to top work them over to something more desirable. I hadn’t really thought about that possibility. And good to be reminded of the importance of diversity below ground as well as above.
Something I am curious about is that in all the years our old orchard has been standing ( 5 apples left, 2 pears, 90+ years old we think), I have never seen any seedlings… Admittedly I’ve only been paying attention for last 10 years maybe..
Theories are: a) 3 of the 5 remaining apples are probably triploids, therefore unlikely to yield offspring, b) rabbits, c) deer d) voles, mice, redwings etc. But now there are seedlings popping up from pomace (including seed from non-triploid apples from other orchards). Still rabbits and deer around. I guess the sheer concentration of seed in a pile of pomace allows some to escape hungry mouths and germinate.
Is it planting 101 next ?! I am just about to start planting out trees on mm111 (a few on m116) which I have grafted over the last 4 years. We are on heavy clay that can be very wet in the winter so I have staked out the parts of our field that are a little higher and less squelchy and avoiding the boggier areas. I will also attempt to mound plant where necessary. I’ve thought about reinstating ditches around perimeter of the field but at the moment thats prohibitively expensive and also quite like the idea of letting the land be boggy if that’s what it wants to be! Maybe I can just make little swale/ditches around my groups of trees to locally aid drainage if needs be (Maybe a little deluded here!)
Whoever planted the old orchard really knew what they were doing - there is a quite deep seasonal pond in the middle of the orchard which we think was actually excavated back in the day and the spoil used to bring up the soil level when the orchard was originally planted.
Looking forward to the next instalment. Cheers, Hamish
Thank you for taking the time to comment Hamish. I'm glad it made sense!
What happens with seedlings in pomace is something I still don't completely understand. You reference Andy's work - he's been spreading pomace for a number of years and seems to have significant germination rates from the seed therein. My own tendency is to separate seed out of the pomace as it comes off the press for either cold storage over winter or immediate sowing into compost - I've noticed little difference in germination rates between these two methods. One thing I have seen, it's that sowing seed into closed propagators in the spring tends to result in significant damping off of small seedlings, hence the direct sowing or outside spring sowing. Having said this, Karim at Keepers Nursery grows thousands of seedlings in a greenhouse situation to great success - but he is a wizard, so there's that...
The absence of seedlings within orchard situations is also something commonplace. I grew up on the Kent/Sussex borders surrounded by thousands of acres of orchards and never saw seedlings, despite the significant wastage of dropped fruit. There's a chemical inhibition at play here I think, but it's something I've not yet had a chance to look into and that same thing has a bearing on the profusion of seedling apples in my own locality.
Planting. Yes, maybe. Sounds like you're all over it already! I think taking the time to really see what is going on in your place thereby modifying practice to suit those conditions is key to getting things going and that's exactly what you're doing! Look forward to hearing about your progress!
Thanks James, this is easily the most graspable explanation of rootstocks I've read - and I've read lots about rootstocks!
Love the idea of using seedlings and I have actually been spreading pomace about the place since I’ve been making cider (5 years) and have maybe 5 seedlings to show for it! Initially I was thinking about getting novel & unique varieties inspired by Andy Brennan’s book but its good to have the backup of being able to top work them over to something more desirable. I hadn’t really thought about that possibility. And good to be reminded of the importance of diversity below ground as well as above.
Something I am curious about is that in all the years our old orchard has been standing ( 5 apples left, 2 pears, 90+ years old we think), I have never seen any seedlings… Admittedly I’ve only been paying attention for last 10 years maybe..
Theories are: a) 3 of the 5 remaining apples are probably triploids, therefore unlikely to yield offspring, b) rabbits, c) deer d) voles, mice, redwings etc. But now there are seedlings popping up from pomace (including seed from non-triploid apples from other orchards). Still rabbits and deer around. I guess the sheer concentration of seed in a pile of pomace allows some to escape hungry mouths and germinate.
Is it planting 101 next ?! I am just about to start planting out trees on mm111 (a few on m116) which I have grafted over the last 4 years. We are on heavy clay that can be very wet in the winter so I have staked out the parts of our field that are a little higher and less squelchy and avoiding the boggier areas. I will also attempt to mound plant where necessary. I’ve thought about reinstating ditches around perimeter of the field but at the moment thats prohibitively expensive and also quite like the idea of letting the land be boggy if that’s what it wants to be! Maybe I can just make little swale/ditches around my groups of trees to locally aid drainage if needs be (Maybe a little deluded here!)
Whoever planted the old orchard really knew what they were doing - there is a quite deep seasonal pond in the middle of the orchard which we think was actually excavated back in the day and the spoil used to bring up the soil level when the orchard was originally planted.
Looking forward to the next instalment. Cheers, Hamish
Thank you for taking the time to comment Hamish. I'm glad it made sense!
What happens with seedlings in pomace is something I still don't completely understand. You reference Andy's work - he's been spreading pomace for a number of years and seems to have significant germination rates from the seed therein. My own tendency is to separate seed out of the pomace as it comes off the press for either cold storage over winter or immediate sowing into compost - I've noticed little difference in germination rates between these two methods. One thing I have seen, it's that sowing seed into closed propagators in the spring tends to result in significant damping off of small seedlings, hence the direct sowing or outside spring sowing. Having said this, Karim at Keepers Nursery grows thousands of seedlings in a greenhouse situation to great success - but he is a wizard, so there's that...
The absence of seedlings within orchard situations is also something commonplace. I grew up on the Kent/Sussex borders surrounded by thousands of acres of orchards and never saw seedlings, despite the significant wastage of dropped fruit. There's a chemical inhibition at play here I think, but it's something I've not yet had a chance to look into and that same thing has a bearing on the profusion of seedling apples in my own locality.
Planting. Yes, maybe. Sounds like you're all over it already! I think taking the time to really see what is going on in your place thereby modifying practice to suit those conditions is key to getting things going and that's exactly what you're doing! Look forward to hearing about your progress!